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This may be stupid, but I am slightly concerned about visiting anything related to Tor or security because of my fearful suspicion that the NSA will flag me for closer observation. That said, me frequenting a site called "Hacker" News probably sets off some red flags somewhere anyway.


You're on their list for that comment alone.

The TLDR of the situation is that you shouldn't worry about what the NSA flags you as. They flagged everyone. Just assume you're on their list because you probably are anyway.


The Snowden releases have done exactly that - in a perverse way, they make me take many more risks online. "Everything I do is already being tracked, so I might as well search for that new Daesh (IS) video."


Yikes, it really irks me that this sort of deserved paranoia is what we've come to...


No--Everyone is on the NSA's list, that is unjust, and I would encourage you to join others to work for justice by increasing the cost of suspicion-less surveillance through mutual aid and solidarity, like using the Tor Browser Bundle.


I look at it this way: a future for humanity where everybody is cowering before "big brother" is not worth calling that. So, why would I prepare for a case that is so bad that any nuances in it are essentially meaningless? Instead, I would rather be counted as someone who bit back at the very least, no matter in how small and futile a way. If the revolution comes, that will be my Persilschein, and if it doesn't, I'd rather be taken away sooner than later. You might say, I'm not as worried about "evil" people with power not liking me because they project their own sickness, I'm rather worried about good, powerless people not liking me for IMHO correct reasons.


Cheers. Thanks for your bravery.

I've likened it to that scene in V for Vendetta. They can only take what you give them.


It's not bravery, not yet, anyway. I have never been threatened, and I figure before that changes, a lot of people who actually are brave, and much more of a threat to oppressors than I ever could hope to be, would disappear in some shape or form. So I'm not brave, I'm just slightly idealistic :)


Professional surveillance usually outwits amateur thought self-policing. May as well enjoy freedom of thought instead. With more anonymous traffic, all parties are incented to raise their game.

Does HN support Tor?

Edit: read City and the City by China Mieville?


I wasn't making the assertion that HN supports Tor. I was just joking that some dumb flag bot in NSA's network likely flags all users visiting sites with words such as "hacker".

I feel that fear of big brother is a limitation on citizens personal freedom since people will be more guarded about what they say, inquire about, and behave. No shifty behavior. The constable may be watching.


> Does HN support Tor?

What do you mean by "support"? You can access HN through tor, though sometimes it is blocked (perhaps depending on which exit node you happen to be routed through).


He probably means a hidden service[1] similar to what DuckDuckGo does. (I'm pretty sure the answer is no).

1: https://www.torproject.org/docs/hidden-services


Not sure why it doesn't. Maybe we can request it? :D


I seem to recall that posts from Tor-only HN users were treated differently, but I could be wrong. I can't recall the details, maybe it was that Tor posts were only visible to those on Tor? Would need to test to make sure.


>That said, me frequenting a site called "Hacker" News probably sets off some red flags somewhere anyway.

Probably less the name of the site as the confluence of money, power, technical expertise and occasionally violent anti-government rhetoric. Honestly, I find it surprising how many people seem to feel perfectly safe here while avoiding Facebook, Google, etc.


I think it was this article that makes me think that the NSA targets users inquiring about Tor: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/how-the-nsa-targets-tor-use...


That's still a pretty noisy filter, though, incorporating millions of people. Even the government uses Tor.


> Even the government uses Tor.

And government officials (esp. in other governments) are obvious targets for NSA surveillance.


I feel that since I truly don't do anything that the NSA could be interested in, if I do something that puts me on their list for higher monitoring, I'm just wasting resources that they could be spending on looking for people who might be communicating with another Snowden. If I download and play with Tor, I'm really helping out people who are trying to exercise their rights. If the NSA 'list' includes everybody, then the list doesn't really have much value to them.


I think you have the wrong end of the stick. The NSA are making it their business to remove people who aren't interesting from the list of EVERYONE!


>I feel that since I truly don't do anything that the NSA could be interested in

How can you confidently say that you know what the NSA is interested in?


Don't be a coward.

Read whatever you want to.

For all the hullabaloo about censored books, surveilled reading is just as much of a threat to the formation of free ideas as censorship, if not more so.


Easier to be a hero if you're an American citizen but the FBI and NSA has a history of extorting people with tenuous citizenship:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Terror-Factory-Manufactured-Terror...


Interesting. I'll have to take a look at that.

I've heard of much of this kind of behavior before. Doesn't this generally involve some form of entrapment, rather than mere browsing behavior?

Important to consider, regardless.


the book argues, quite successfully in my opinion, that these cases are entrapment. The government says that entrapment doesn't apply because terrorism.


You're right. That is stupid. That's exactly what NSA wants. For us to not even bother to try to use more privacy-friendly tools because "they may be watching us". Guess what. They are already watching us. All of us. Do you really think you have to be on a "Tor list" for the to spy on you?

They have alerts on everything. If you say something they may not like online, you're probably already on a list. Tor or not.


> I am slightly concerned about visiting anything related to Tor or security because of my fearful suspicion that the NSA will flag me for closer observation.

This is exactly what's wrong with the whole situation.


I wholeheartedly agree.


I went to a privacy conference in Europe this summer, featuring a former NSA official. The organizers explicitly asked me if I wanted to "be on the list," so of course I said yes.

To my dismay, the TSA did not attempt to search me at my home airport. Perhaps the data had not propagated to screeening yet. Regardless, it seems harder than I initially thought to get onto one of these NSA lists.


The best way to fight this is to make the list of suspicious people so long that it's intractable to pay attention to any of us.




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