The argument of efficiency is stupid. Of course I can do a better job distributing hot dogs than the hot dog guy if I just put out a massive table of hot dogs I got for free and let people run up and grab one without paying for it. But that model doesn't work if I have to pay for my hot dogs.
If you invest millions of dollars in movies or a music album, you have to charge money to make it back. As we can see from Spotify and others, ad supported models do not pay enough to cover the high costs of creating expensive products. But of course alternative revenue is enough to pay for the costs of selling something that doesn't belong to you and costs nothing for you to distribute. And once you have to charge, of course people will prefer to get it where they don't have to pay. It has little to do with convenience. The number one thing that will impact the conversion rate on a shopping cart funnel (besides SSN) is asking for a credit card, regardless of how few seconds it takes to fill it out. People are wary of putting their card in online, they're lazy, and they're cheap. You're not more efficient, you're just catering to the lowest common denominator of people.
There is virtually no reason why companies could not distribute products the way TPB does, except that they'd still have to charge money for those products. The minute you do that, someone who gives away hot dogs they didn't pay for wins. To pretend like it's some noble effort is a joke. You earn your livings off the backs of people who make things people want. Try charging your users for the things you offer and see how long your "more efficient" platform does well.
Sure, people will go on and on about how they get higher quality files, whole discographies in one click, and blah blah blah. Most people do not do that and they still pirate things. Taking things you didn't pay for and selling them cheaper than someone who did is not more efficient. Just start calling a spade a spade so we can move on and talk like adults.
This is discounting how much it has to do with convenience. People love Netflix's streaming service, but it's plagued by the fact that the studios are reluctant to give them access to a wider catalog (as I understand it, not a Netflix subscriber).
There are tons of examples where the MPAA/RIAA members could have switched distribution methods, but chose not to for a very long time because they are too conservative. Once they shuttered Napster, they could have paid a team to develop something similar to the iTunes music store, and organized a set of standards to govern music players with electronics companies. They could have owned the new distribution medium by ushering it in themselves. Instead they spent time on legal teams playing wack-a-mole with the pirates and lobbying various legislative bodies across the globe to try and prevent the Internet from happening. The only investment that they want to make in the future is attempting to extend the ecosystem of the past into the future as far as possible.
As I understand it (and happy to be educated otherwise), the major record labels can not build an iTunes competitor together, as it would require discussions that lead to price fixing, etc. There is a good interview with the head of digital for Warner Bros Music on This Week in Music that talks about how they can only hope the other labels negotiate with people like Spotify because they have to make forward progress, but they can't know for sure and coordinate efforts to move the industry forward, because it's actually illegal to have most of those discussions with each other. Again, I don't know if that's true, but it could be.
I can't speak to the legal issues, but I do know the TV guys tried it with Hulu and got scared of it competing with their core business when it started to become successful. So I kind of doubt it's concern over antitrust suits at work here.
Despite the massive variance in initial investment in the different albums. Just to think of some examples: Pearl Jam: Bunch of guys with guitars; include mic. and camera, and you're done. Rihanna: Advanced sound engineering, post-productiony stuff, dancers, choreography, professional songwriters, etc., etc. Yet the CDs cost the same.
Oh yeah, there can be no other way that that happens. Must've been greedy old guys in a room rubbing their hands together, plotting.
Most cars in the same class and relative features cost the same. Most comparable computers cost similar amounts. Costume jewelry from store to store is similarly priced.
Not everything is a conspiracy. You price things at what people will pay for them, and for many years people gladly paid, and still pay, $13.99 for CDs. You don't have to conspire to come to a similar price point.
I worked in a music store for a number of years, and got gossipy stories from area and regional managers about stuff from label reps and contacts. There were a few more majors back then, but it always felt very much like collusion more than competition - coordinating of release dates, for one. We couldn't adjust our prices to match competition without clearing it first with HQ. Some of these were, to some extent, normal retail chain corporate policies, but why were they so worried about some issues? Well, if we violated things, we might lose some deals we had with label X or label Y. (Almost felt like if mfg X preloaded linux on model ABC, they wouldn't get preferential MS Windows licensing prices compared to their competitors.)
Do you know how many actors, directors producers and composers there are that are as poor or poorer than most Americans? The people you watch on TMZ are an anomaly. Most creatives struggle as much as the next guy.
I wasn't talking about the legislation. I simply said TPB's only greater efficiency is that they don't have to charge for their product, because they come about it dishonestly. And I know plenty of creatives who support this opinion.
As correct as earbitscom is in his response to this comment, there is another issue.
Some of these people are being compensated so well because they are able to play a part in the making of a movie, which millions of people want to watch and will pay money to do so. They are being paid for their abilities and the more specifically, rarity of those abilities.
Yes! Thank you for laying out your opinion so intelligently and with such a perfect metaphor. It is really time for everyone to just grow up and as you so eloquently put it, "just start calling a spade a spade".
Digital content isn't exactly like a hot dog, so let's assume that you could design a magical hot dog which, once created, you can copy many times with no other costs. You have an unlimited supply of hot dogs, and each one of these hot dogs, being an exact copy of the original, can also be used to magically make more hot dogs.
Now I'm not saying that this hot dog is free - it cost a LOT in R&D to produce this hot dog, and you invested a lot in it. The other thing is that hot dogs go with buns, and there's sadly no magical buns in this universe. Each and every bun has to be created, and costs money.
So you set up your hot dog stand, selling magical hot dogs with non-magical buns. You charge a premium rate because you're the only guy in town who managed to make a magical hot dog of this quality, and with it's unique flavour. Besides, the buns are still costing you money, and they have to come from somewhere.
Now you notice some guy has found out that the magical hot dog you sold him can make new hot dogs at no cost, but they don't have the buns attached. As a response, you start baking the hot dogs into the bread - it makes it harder to get the hot dog out, and you think that that's the end of it. But the guy realises that with a bit of effort, he can get the hot dog out of the bread too, because what's the point of a hot dog if you can't get at it? Baking the hot dog into the bread is costing you even more, and making it harder for people to get to the hot dog.
Soon you have some people coming up to you and asking if they can have seeded bread, or maybe gluten free, or maybe they just hate bread and want it on it's own. Some of them want to buy just your hot dog and put it on their own bread. But if you start selling them hot dogs by themselves, won't they just start handing out free hot dogs to all their friends? That would be a disaster! So your answer is no! Hot dogs come baked into bread, and by now you've convinced the mayor to make it illegal to take your hot dogs out of the bread. People should just learn to love your bread!
So how's the guy who took your hot dog out of it's bread going? He's still giving away hot dogs for free, and what's worse is that he's telling everyone he gives one to to give them away, too. It's costing him nothing to do because he doesn't have to pay for bread. Sure, some people are still coming to you because they actually like the bread, but mostly the people coming to you are asking about bread-free options, and are still willing to pay. Most of the people going to the guy who's giving out hot dogs for free never bought anything from you, and some of them don't even eat the hot dogs. Sure, you see a few of your old customers going to him instead, but mostly the people going to him either never came to you, or (after tasting the free hot dog) later come to you to buy a genuine one in bread.
The point isn't that the guy giving away free hot dogs isn't a jerk. He is. The point is that you're stubbornly refusing to let people pay for a hot dog how they want it, in a way that costs you less (because you don't have to adjust the price for the bread - you just have to cover your costs, rather than incurring new ones).
You're doing this in an attempt to stop people doing what they're already doing. People don't want to rip you off - they just want to be able to pick their own bread.
To break from the analogy now, I was happily a pirate because it was difficult for me to get what I wanted how I wanted and there was no technical reason why it wasn't available. Sure, if I wanted all my movies as flip-books, then there's a technical reason why that doesn't make sense, but there's no technical reason stopping me from getting them as digital media files.
If I'm looking for music from a band, I will always try to find a legal channel to obtain it first. If I can't find one (and these days, it's getting pretty rare), then I'll probably pirate it. Sure, some people will pirate it anyway because they feel entitled to it, but the point is that many, many people have no problems paying for content so long as they can get it how and when they want it. This type of availability of content is pretty much what TPB seems to be about for many people. It's not about screwing content producers - it's about freedom of choice.
Anyway, that's my take on it. I know that there are people who will always choose to steal rather than pay, but most of society would happily pay if only we were allowed to.
> The point is that you're stubbornly refusing to let people pay for a hot dog how they want it
If you are the guy spending money to create the original magic hot dogs, you have to charge a certain amount to recoup your money. If you do not, you cannot afford to make those hot dogs anymore. You must also take into consideration the many investments you make in magic hamburgers and fries that don't pan out.
Once you create that hot dog, even if you give people exactly what they want - bread, no bread, wrap it in a fucking croissant - if you require a credit card and the dipshit down the street does not, no amount of convenient packages and toppings is going to make up for it. Does it make the guy down the street a genius with a better product, as TPB's "statement" tries to paint of them? No, it makes them a parasite leeching from people who have the talent and skill to make magic hot dogs.
As I said, let's just call a spade a spade. The greater efficiency they bring to the table is removing the paywall, which they can only afford to do because they create nothing. Maybe you think there is nothing wrong with that. But if everyone is going to so adamantly insist that we not call piracy theft, let's also not call TPB innovative. Their only innovation is finding a way to profit off the backs of people who make things we enjoy, while giving nothing back. Bravo.
The pay wall is indeed a major hindrance. However, this is not because you have to give money. This is because giving money takes time. Paying with my credit card takes me a full minute when I have to type its number, and I don't really want to trust big companies with it (not to mention my buying records).
I don't know how we could do this, but here is the ideal case: paying requires only 2 clicks, it is secure, and it is anonymous (no one besides the receiver and yourself know of the transaction). Imagine computer games that feature a "click to donate $1" menu option. Media players could do the same, provided there is the relevant information in the music file. If I ever have the urge to donate, I just click, and it's done.
Right now, I have a pirated copy of Skyrim on my computer. I like this game, and I think it deserves at the very least a tip. Actually, I am seriously considering purchasing it. But it is a hassle. I need either to set up a steam account, or to buy a copy at a local store (in France, and I want English dialogues). But if my copy featured a "donate" button I can trust, I definitely would have given at least 10€, probably 25€.
Amazon already allows this. I make music purchases that go straight to the cloud in one click, plus a single confirmation click. They are immediately available both on the web and on my phone.
Yes, and this is great. Unfortunately, there are still some problems left: I don't really trust them with my credit card, and I don't like the fact that they know (and remember) everything I buy from them.
If this were possible, I would like to "pay cash" over the network.
If this is true, shouldn't TPB take down all items on their website which is already available digitally? Everything available currently on Amazon, iTunes, Hulu, Spotify, Rhapsody, Netflix, et al should be removed then correct? It is availably digitally. I think your statement of 'how and when they want it' actually means they want it immediately and want it for $0 or as close to $0 as possible.
A lot of that isn't available internationally, due to market segmentation by the movie/music cartels. I have no idea how much of the world TPB serves as compared to US only markets, but I suspect it's pretty ubiquitous anywhere there's broadband - whereas legit access to that media is not.
The sad thing is "already available digitally" is a thing that comes and go. Take e.g the iTunes Store or Zune, which I use routinely, have items disappear and then reappear a week, or a month later, or never. It's absolutely ridiculous.
(I notice it because I add things to my wishlist and they sit there, and when I want to rent or buy it it's not there anymore, and then, a month down, maybe it's back, maybe not).
If he ran it, maybe he would do that. TPB might have a different take on the issue.
As for pragmatic concerns, maybe they're considered less liable for the content they host, since they don't monitor the content to remove "accessible" content?
Also - something might be digitally available in the US, but not in other countries.
"""Anyway, that's my take on it. I know that there are people who will always choose to steal rather than pay, but most of society would happily pay if only we were allowed to."""
I don't buy that. There is and will always be ( as far as I can tell ) the simple fact that I can get an album that costs x dollars for 0. Itunes and Amazon make the purchase of music about as easy as possible, but they still can't beat free.
Your mileage may vary of course, but Spotify definitely beats TPB when it comes to easy. Relatively cheap and extremely accessible. I entered my credit card details a couple of years ago and simply forgot about the negligible sum withdrawn each month. Such a shame it took the industry so long...
"Of course I can do a better job distributing hot dogs than the hot dog guy if I just put out a massive table of hot dogs I got for free and let people run up and grab one without paying for it. But that model doesn't work if I have to pay for my hot dogs."
I'm not arguing for the Pirate Bay, but there is an error in your logic - to make that analogy fit into an online distribution situation, you would have to postulate that you only have to pay for one hotdog, and the rest can be duplicated and distributed for close to zero cost.
If you invest millions of dollars in movies or a music album, you have to charge money to make it back. As we can see from Spotify and others, ad supported models do not pay enough to cover the high costs of creating expensive products. But of course alternative revenue is enough to pay for the costs of selling something that doesn't belong to you and costs nothing for you to distribute. And once you have to charge, of course people will prefer to get it where they don't have to pay. It has little to do with convenience. The number one thing that will impact the conversion rate on a shopping cart funnel (besides SSN) is asking for a credit card, regardless of how few seconds it takes to fill it out. People are wary of putting their card in online, they're lazy, and they're cheap. You're not more efficient, you're just catering to the lowest common denominator of people.
There is virtually no reason why companies could not distribute products the way TPB does, except that they'd still have to charge money for those products. The minute you do that, someone who gives away hot dogs they didn't pay for wins. To pretend like it's some noble effort is a joke. You earn your livings off the backs of people who make things people want. Try charging your users for the things you offer and see how long your "more efficient" platform does well.
Sure, people will go on and on about how they get higher quality files, whole discographies in one click, and blah blah blah. Most people do not do that and they still pirate things. Taking things you didn't pay for and selling them cheaper than someone who did is not more efficient. Just start calling a spade a spade so we can move on and talk like adults.