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I'm not sure I follow your logic, but one could argue this campaign with drones and cheaper missiles taught Iran it doesn't even need a nuclear deterrent anymore.

Between this and Ukraine, the logic of a nuclear warhead deterrent might be considered a paradigm relic from 20th century.


This is false. If Trump had chosen to nuke Iranian cities, Iran would have had no recourse without a proper nuclear bomb.

I agree that you are correct in this statement, althought if USA or Israel decided to nuke a country without a MAD recourse, that would be another can of worms. There's multiple reasons no country did that after Hiroshima. Even Russia refrained themselves of doing that in Ukraine after all these years.

Allow me to do a slight modification on my assessment: Iran found out they won't need a nuclear deterrent to avoid ANY future aggression; modern, cheap drones and conventional missile loadouts will do just fine. Money they would continue spending on nuclear enrichment can be better spent elsewhere, military.


I would be surprised if they could get it out of their airspace considering their country is heavily monitored. Every target hit was probably known for years and years, their routines and what they do.

Iran's nuclear bomb is to take out desalination plants in Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, UAE and Saudi Arabia. It would be game over for the GCC.

Iran is ATM saying it closed the Strait again, implied that it will wait until Israel stand down at least.

Even if USA insist on Israel-Hezbollah (and so Lebanon) be kept apart from any deal to end their war in Iran, it would still mean a terrible strategic and diplomatic disaster between USA and Israel, because Israel Gov' will be left with two terrible scenarios:

1) Trump Admin' will concede to Iran they'd be leaving the region and leaving Israel to defend itself alone, because the Hormuz being open for business and the Gulf states being spared would be enough; or

2) USA will have to resume hostilities, meaning domestically Trump will have to explain the US Military is obliged to continue the war effort for as long as Israel want.

IMHO don't see how Israel-US can politically survive those two scenarios.


> IMHO don't see how Israel-US can politically survive those two scenarios.

Is that such a bad thing?


Israel is a nuclear-armed state. The world is in effect asking them to commit suicide. That's why we have been involved for the last 50 years--by siding with them we keep those bombs in their silos. Most of the Muslim world has come to the realization that coexistence is the right answer, but the Islamists have not. They'll keep pushing until they go up in a mushroom cloud.

Lest you blame the Jews we see the same sort of thing happening with India/Pakistan--fortunately the Islamists do not control the Pakistani bombs, but they keep trying to egg on war with India--a war that could only end with the nuclear destruction of Pakistan. And the Islamists have enough power that Pakistan can't just go after them without causing a civil war. That's why the mess in Afghanistan--Pakistan was exporting the problem. And now it's turning on them--now that the Islamists have a country they control they're looking to take Pakistan.


Probably for the actual innocent people who live in Israel , yes

Maybe Iran will avoid Palestinian parts.

Israel is a modern day Nazi Germany. I wouldn't call anyone there over the age of 18 "innocent".

I think that's unfair. There are some people with sane politics there, although it's definitely a small minority. For example: https://www.teenvogue.com/story/taylor-swift-fan-account-twi...

Our linked HN subreddit seems to really sucking in Redditors, I can see.


> But instead almost every relevant player (...) and has no desire to join in the hostilities

Almost correct, but days ago there was an UN meeting where a resolution to bring forth a naval response from many countries to reopen the Strait by force was voted, and it was vetoed by China and Russia (IIRC also by France).

That news became old very quickly, but it was a move done to force USA to concede a ceasefire because it made the US the only player who could make an offer with Iran to reopen the Strait, even if in undesirable terms.

The fact that this meeting happened and a resolution was blocked made Trump and the US incapable of blaming the EU of not helping reopening the Strait.


It's a win.

The largest military the world has ever known was recklessly used towards a foe against decades of internal warning not to go there. People on both sides who didn't ask for this war paid with their lives.

High gas prices might have been a great cause for it ending, but the win for the world is that a escalation towards WWIII was averted, and that even idiotic leaders have learned that the world is a complex system and there's no such thing as a far away war anymore.


I actually think it is important to talk about winning and losing, more so when the overwhelmingly stronger party loses.

> even idiotic leaders have learned

Call me a cynic, but if you are dumb enough to start the war in the first place you are too dumb to learn any lesson.


Discovering? It was announced a thousand times, maybe you dismissed because none of them were easily achievable?

Opening the Strait, renouncing nuclear program, renouncing ballistic program, regime change. Even Israel will be forced to retreat from Lebanon.

Iran won by choking the Strait and telling USA and Israel they could endure far longer than their aggressors could endure a few missiles and domestic support drop.

A Pakistani-made taco was not in my radar for today.


Opening the Strait was not a goal of this action; the Strait was open before this war started. They are trying to sell as a win a return to the status quo ante.

Right. So the objectives for US were regime change in Iran and end of nuclear program. Iran wanted sanctions dropped and continued nuclear program.

I think you will find that Biden closed the straights and that it was going to be reopened and China was going to pay for it. (/s?)

I dismissed them because the president and the Pentagon could not seem to articulate the objectives of the war in a way that was cohesive with one another.

Also,the Strait was open before the war.


Yeah obviously opening the strait wasn’t an objective. I think what you’re suggesting is that the mentioned reason - denuclearization of Iran - is unlikely to be the real reason, which may have been something like distraction.

> Opening the Strait

So the US started a war with an objective to open the Strait which only closed due to the war they started.

Can you explain what you mean here mate?


How on Earth was opening the straight an objective of this war, when the straight was open before the war.

It's like Russia declaring that Russian control of Moscow is an objective of the war with Ukraine.

> renouncing nuclear program,

If that was the objective, the US should be declaring war on the guy who scrapped the Iran nuclear deal, because it was accomplishing just that.


All those ships are needed for an easy win in Cuba.

Two weeks of open Strait to nail the final version, yes.

I guess gas prices in US will cool down to pre-war price averages and the pressure not to resume aggression will be huge.


Absolutely not. It will takes months to years to rebuild onshore infrastructure, and shipping companies will be very reluctant to send tankers into the Gulf. Negotiations may collapse and hostilities resume at any moment, especially since Israel does not know the meaning of the word ceasefire.

No chance. Up like a rocket, down like a feather.

and that's without considering the lost production capacity.


Two weeks of open Strait [1]

[1]: in coordination with the Iranian military [2]

[2]: with preference for Iran's friends[3]

[3]: and fees paid to Iran


Correct. The implied pressure was "you want to stop the retaliation, demand the US to withdraw their bases from you territory".

Iranian strategy in this war will be studied for ages.


But isn't the same thing done by Putin to Ukraine?

I fail to see what similarity you are implying.

Russia is the aggressor there, and I don't recall Ukraine targeting other countries with Russian bases. Also, the war in Ukraine is about Russia expanding territory so it involved boots and occupation since day one, which is not the case in Iran.


At least there is an idea that at least one of the reason Russia attacked Ukraine was to prevent it from joining NATO, which would have enabled US military bases in Ukraine.

Exactly. POSIWID, the "purpose of a system is what it does".

The administration proudly call it that, formal documents call it that, and war they wage. It is a Department of War.

A remarkable exception of non-doublespeak nowadays.


That is also why I think it "won" over Slack. Discord solved audio comms for gamers, period. It got so good, that SMB and startups started to migrate for stuff like easy pair-programming, open meetings etc.

Discord IMO won because of a killer trio: 1) good comms 2) full history 3) faster UI over bloated Slack.


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